"Gee it's been about a month and a half - I guess it is time for us to get slapped in the face."In case you're wondering what the big deal is and why the gay community would be offended by Rick Warren being asked to have such a high profile moment check out Warren's little video here
I love how he says,
"If you believe what the bible says about marriage you need to support Proposition 8."
Oh really. So then I should look at Deuteronomy 21:15
"A man might have two wives. And he might love one wife more than the other. Both wives might have children for him. And the first child might be the child of the wife he does not love."
Or how about Matthew 19:8-9
8 Jesus answered, "Moses allowed you to divorce your wives because you refused to accept God's teaching. But divorce was not allowed in the beginning. 9 I tell you that any person that divorces his wife and marries another woman is guilty of the sin of adultery. The only reason for a person to divorce and marry again is if his first wife had sexual relations with another man."
Interesting isn't it. Let's hear what Pastor Warren had to say in an interview with Beliefnet about divorce and if it is a big problem today.
I love how he basically says that the reason we make such a big deal about gay marriage is because of "ratings." This is ok to turn the gays into the BIG sinners and second class citizens because the other stuff is too close to home so no one will listen (come to church - or give money).
It's this attitude that keeps suicide amongst gay teens and young adults so high. All because it's easier to vilify such a small minority than deal with real problems, like divorce, that are really hurting families and kids all across this country. Warren and others like him don't want to "redefine marriage". Yet marriage has changed so much over the course of time. Wives used to considered more property than anything. Marriage was a business transaction done by the patriach of the family. Not so long ago bi-racial couples could not marry in this country. Warren says over and over that marriage has been the same for 5,000 years. I wonder if he meant this example from the The Sex Atlas written by Erwin J. Haeberle, Ph.D., Ed.D.,
"The English Puritans in the 17th century even passed an Act of Parliament asserting "marriage to be no sacrament" and soon thereafter made marriage purely secular. It was no longer to be performed by a minister, but by a justice of the peace. The Restoration abolished this law and reverted to the old system, but the Puritans brought their concept of marriage to America where it survived."
Marriage is not a sacrament but secular - well isn't that interesting.
Apparently I am supposed to be ok with Warren because he's not homophobic because he funds AIDS projects. Gee that's about the only good thing President Bush did too. Not the kind of company I'd want to be in.
But wait there's more
I am amazed he can laugh off being homophobic when he compares gay marriage to incest and pedophilia but it's ok because he will talk to gay people and give them water and donuts.
So again I'm back to why did Obama go there. I agree with the reporter in the video. This is political. But I'll let Obama speak first.
So is this a payback? The comment Obama says about Warren having him come speak to his church he considered a big opportunity. So is this his thank you for helping him with some of the religious groups that Obama needed to reach. I can't say for sure. I do believe that Obama is trying to e inclusive and bring people together. I also think that there are those that are not promoting hate and equating LGBT people to pedophiles that can have this kind of a spotlight.
So I know it seems us gays have been yelling a lot lately and this isn't going to help calm us down.
I heard a woman on the radio today and she has given me reason to pause and try to move from this in a different direction.
Rev. Joseph E. Lowery, an African-American pro-gay minister will be giving the benediction. The woman on the radio commented that these two choices were symbolic.
"Pastor Warren represents where we are now. That's why he is going first. Rev. Lowery represents where this country is going.
Like the inauguration will show the journey of change.
This caller saved the day for me. To me it sounds like Obama's thought process and diligent planning. I'm trying hard to buy into it.
I find it incredible that so many people are using strong adjectives such as outraged, furious, and steaming to describe they way they feel about Obama picking Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at his inaguration. For godsake its not like he picked Fred Phelps.
ReplyDeleteObama is a man that WE put in office, our money, blood, sweat, tears and most importantly our votes are what got him there. Most of us voted for him because he inspired something within ourselves and gave us hope for a better future. Now he is not even in office and people are already questioning decisions he has made. NOW more than ever we have to believe in him, believe that he is making the decisions for a better more unified future. I understand many of us are hurt with the passing of Props, 102, 8, and 2. But there is a HUGE portion of the US population he needs to build the gap with and if Rick Warren will enable him to reach another portion of that population, so be it.
When you checked that box, punched that hole, or completed that line next to Obama's name, you were voting for the decisions he has made and will make. Lets build some bridges before we start burning the ones we have.
I loved the quote by the caller "Warren is where we are and Lowery is where we are going." Let us hope that we can inspire more people to believe in this and an Obama presidency.
gaydawgtrainer, I understand that Obama is who we wanted and that he said he would surround himself with many different points of view.
ReplyDeleteIt is for this reason I think we do need to use our voice to express our feelings about this choice. Some are sad some are outraged and some didn't know a prayer or two would be said at the event.
We have sat and seen the evangelicals rise up and voice their opinions and desires very loudly. In fact so loudly that Prop 8 was passed. They have been so vocal we can hardly see the separation of church and state.
Now the LGBT community has found it's voice again. The passing of Prop 8 has strengthened our community and reminded us that silence=death.
I think that part of what Obama wants is to hear the people. So let's give him what he wants. I will tell him when I agree with him and when I don't. I'm sure there will be plenty of both. At least with him I'll take the time to do it because I believe he will listen. I gave up on Bush long ago.
Did you catch "one man and a woman" not the truly parallel "one man and one woman?" And that his delivery of the line was such that he threw away the "and a woman" part?
ReplyDeleteIt has always amazed me that Warren could have achieved his level of success without a contextual understanding of ancient texts.
I'm now wondering if he knows better and is being intentionally disingenuous and that is what he should be called out on. Is this man intentionally misquoting scripture for his own stature in the evangelical movement?
PBCliberal -
ReplyDeleteI did catch his delivery and found it very interesting. There is talk of a debate coming between him and Rev. Lee. I think if they could make that happen things could get interesting.